My present guild broke off from a hardcore T5 guild to form a group of people still serious about raiding but more attuned to RL constraints… we raid only 3 nights a week. Our vets (myself included) were in a mix of T4 & 5 when we started ZA and we found it to be quite challenging… numerous Jan’Alai & Hexlord wipes until we finally figured them out. Slowly but surely we got ZA geared and now we’re consistently clearing in 2 and a half hours and occasionally getting the 3rd chest.

So my advise is DON”T GIVE UP! It’s worth it!

After gearing up 1 group, we spilt up that group, ‘cross-pollinated’, and have 2 ZA groups running with good success. 2 weeks ago we pieced together a 25-man… we 2-shotted HKM and 1-shotted Gruul & Mags in one night! Last night we went into MH (courtesy of 2.4) and downed Rage on the 2nd attempt!

Bottomline, ZA is a viable path to gear for MH/BT, without even stepping foot in SSC & TK, and shouldn’t be ignored.

Good hunting!

Flynx @ Bronzebeard

Generally our problem is consistancy. We’ve long had a policy of signup sof first come, first serve. We do have designated slots, but we often find ourselves with people unfamiliar with the encounter, less than optimally geared or the wrong class mix.

When we bring our A game with our experienced raiders playing toons they’ve been running ZA, the first 4 aspects are a joke and we have no problem with the first two chests. I dont’ have alot fo doubt that with some tuning of strategy and path we take we could hit the third. We have dropped Malacrass a couple times, but not Zul’jin.

Honeslty most folks are not looking at the loot table and going “Why?” The loot table of ZA is particularly tailored for cerntain classes with only a few pieces that other classes would have any interest in. Often even those pieces are sidegrades to pieces obtainable elsewhere.

We haven’t given up on ZA as an instance, but I think we’re better served by focusing most of our energy elsewhere. Za still gets run, but its more of a pickup raid at this point within the guild for those who are interested in running it.

Though touted as a tier 4 level instance, it reminds me of the heroics back before they got beaten with the nerf bat. There is *no* room for error, one undergeared person can tank the entire group, and even a good solid group can wipe in interesting and exciting ways. You also *really* need a consistent roster (which is the failing point of the group that I run with).

Casual guilds who are serious about clearing ZA really have to assemble their A team. My group started running ZA after Kara and Gruul. Our first time in there we downed Nalorakk just after the sacrifice timer was up (i.e., it took us more than 20 minutes to clear to him and kill him), and we couldn’t even do the gauntlet up to Akil’zon because we would get overwhelmed by eagles. Now we have the first two chests on farm (like Barona) and clear ZA in one night. We still have problems with Jan’alai sometimes, and Zul’jin always takes a couple of tries, but the place gets cleared. And my guild is still T4. Clearing ZA isn’t about having better-than-T4 gear, it’s about getting ten people together who know how to play the game. Getting chests is about keeping the group as consistent as possible from week to week to maintain a level of familiarity with the instance and to minimize time spent explaining encounters.

Up until Magtheridon, WoW is far too forgiving towards players who can’t play their classes properly and who can’t coordinate in a raid. Well … if they say that Magetheridon is an idiot check, then ZA is a series of six idiot checks after that.

But when everyone brings it in ZA, the instance just becomes fun. Racing against the clock every week (or every three days, depending on how masochistic your guild is, hehe) is just plain fun for us. For the past two weeks we have cleared up to Jan’alai with more than enough time to kill him, but we’ve wiped and lost the third chest. Maybe we’ll get it this week if we continue to push ourselves and have a bit of luck on the Jan’alai fight. There’s excitement in that.

BTW, if a healer is getting pwned in the face by trash in ZA then there is a serious tanking or CC problem.

GL regardless of what progression your guild decides to pursue!

ZA leaves absolutely no room for error, and everyone needs to know how to squeeze every last drop out of their classes. Kara geared is sufficient I’ve heard, but if your tanks don’t know how to gen threat optimally, your DPS is light, or your healing slips even a hair…. well….. good night.

My guild hasn’t broken through to T6 yet, and we’ve yet to complete ZA. It’s not our focus at all – but the Dragonhawk routinely owns us, and Zul’jin remains alive.

That being said, it is do-able for a casual guild. You have to be willing to die lots though in order to learn it, though, and that is understandably frustrating and expensive. All the boss fights are highly tactical and every one needs the coordination that a Nethersprite/Prince fight had. We are fortunate to have 2-3 really good raid leaders who are excellent at learning and coaching the other guildies who are unfamiliar with the fights.

We can do the first two timed quests fairly consistently now, but the third is still beyond reach. Zul’jin just recently went down, but downing any boss is still cause for celebration due to their difficulties.

So… the whole point of this speech? I would say ZA is endgame for “casual, non-25 man raiding guilds,” not Kara. I look at it this way: 99% of the raiding guilds do not have Black Temple on Farm, and those that do are impressive and “hardcore” (hate using that word). ZA is designed to be a challenge for 10man guilds like BT is for 25mans. But in order to master it, you have to find wiping while progressing and a little outside research enjoyable. If this is not what your guild likes (and absolutely no shame if it does not for those in a casual guild), then blowing through Kara in 3 hours for 22 badgers is not a bad way to spend your time either!